Wow. Just....wow!

And I'm not talking about the picture.

The last I looked...this picture was posted in the Critique Request section, and anyone who posts a picture in it, has to be prepared for people saying they don't quite like any particular image that he or she has posted, no matter how much others do like it.
I think we've all learned, or at least we should have, that every one of us is different. Not everyone is gonna like every image you post, or every set, or even your entire style of photography, but d'ya know what? That's ok. I posted a thread of 9 images the other day, and almost everyone who commented, good or bad, picked a different picture as their favourite of the set. We all appreciate, and interpret photographs differently.
We just have to be a bit less possessive and defensive of our shots if we've put them out there for public scrutiny. If someone doesn't like a picture, and gives you a good, clear explanation as to why it just isn't working for them, then take it on board, and either work with the suggestion, or forget all about it and carry on with your own thing, but please don't get bent out of shape if someone criticizes your pictures. Like I said, we're all different.
And this isn't directed to Tommy or Bazza, it's a general comment, because I've noticed one or two people in the past getting their feathers ruffled at the slightest criticism of a picture they've posted. If that's the case, then don't post them in the Critique Request section.


As for the picture itself...I personally think it's self explanatory, even if I have absolutely no idea what an FS 7 Truck Driver is. I don't really need to know what it is to appreciate a picture of someone doing it.
The image clearly shows a snowboarder who has just left a ramp, and is performing some sort of trick, a trick which we now know, is actually called the Truck Driver.
Is it a stunning image, I would say yes.
Is it the most flattering angle I've ever seen of a snowboarder before, I would say no.
However, if tommy was to come further down the slope to his right, he would have been shooting straight into the Sun, and we might not have seen the snowboarder at all, despite Tommy having his own light source.
If Tommy had gone even further down the hill, shooting back up towards the Snowboarder, he would have had a better angle of the trick itself, but then we would have lost the amazing background, and sense of height we see in the shot.

I don't really like the angle of the snowboarder, however I really do like the image as a whole, and I would have been very happy had I taken it myself, as I'm sure most of you would too.


Quickly going back to the other matter at hand, I too feel, that despite the snowboarder not being at the clearest angle, it was a tad hasty, and indeed a bit silly for Bazza to say:

" (I)Don't think it would be too hard to edit out that red/black which distracts the overall picture."

Hasty because, having "studied" the image more closely, we can all see that the "red/black" thing is indeed a snowboarder.
Silly because, to edit out that red/black thing would take away the very nature of the photograph itself, which is why Tommy said it was the dumbest thing he'd ever heard. I have to agree.

I would also completely disagree with Bazza when he said " if you have to deduce what a picture is or what its about then its a poor picture."

Sometimes I quite enjoy not instantly knowing in a single glance, everything there is to know about a photograph, or even a painting. It's only when you study it closely, that things start jumping out at you in more detail, and then you have a better appreciation of not only what the image is about, but what actually went in to making the image itself. These can sometimes be the most rewarding images for the viewer.

And as for Bazza saying this to Tommy:

"You obviously also don't have a clue about what you are saying or you would have been able to explain your statement " " throwing down a Fs 7 Truck Driver ". I suspect it is some term or other you heard and don't know what it means. "

Again, a tad hasty, and silly. Just because you haven't heard of it before, doesn't mean that Tommy hasn't either. In reply to that comment, Tommy clearly explained his "Dumb" comment, as well as going on to explain the trick.

Look, don't get me wrong, I'm not Tommy's biggest fan, and I certainly don't want it to come across that I am.
I do like some ( but not all ) of his photographs, but I don't like the fact that he very rarely comments or gives advice or help to anyone else who could perhaps benefit from the skills he has developed for himself.
I'm not sure of the motives of someone who simply posts images all the time without regular feedback and advice to others.
And yes, he's not very good at taking criticism.

But in this instance, I have to say that it is Bazza who over reacted.

I myself had a run in with someone very early on, when Yo was just finding it's feet. We both still post our photos and comments, but we agreed amicably, that neither of us would comment on the others pictures, and that's the way it has been since.

Instead of putting blocks on this and that, why not just put this behind you both and move on, or agree to simply refrain from posting comments on each others threads?


This has been a short extract from " My Tuppence Worth " by Mandé Daguerre

Couldn't agree more with what you've said there MD.

I also think, if people post in the crit section, they can expect crit - I'm a bit tired of trying to help out when I se the C&C sign, and getting grief for it. If you don't actually *want* crit, don't ask.

Likewise, try to be tactful!

xx

WELL SAID MD!!!!!
Totally totally agree with everything you said!

There's a big difference between offering a critique when you know what you're on about (in relation to that particular photograph) and offering a critique when you don't. That's something I personally have issue with.

I've studied this community since it started and think a block feature is what we need - that way, if you have little respect for someone's opinion, you don't have to go through the rigmarole of dealing with them/what they say, every time they comment on one of your photos.

That will actually 'teach' people how to be better at offering a critique too - because when they find people are blocking them left right and centre they'll (hopefully) begin to wonder why that is. And I'm fairly sure, that most of us here WANT good honest critique, and would be more than happy to receive it from people who we feel are doing it in an acceptable manner. (Being courteous goes a long way!)

I have to say, I don't think you have to 'understand' a particular method of photography, or a particular subject matter, to know if something could be improved upon, or if it's a good photo or not... :/

xx

OK, so how will the over zealous critic be able to show that he or she has learned the error of their ways, if they've been blocked by everyone and have nowhere left to post their critique to prove they've changed? Does that mean they will be forever blocked from commenting on images again?
How will you know when it's time to lift the ban?

And surely the people who haven't yet put a block on this hypothetical critic, never really felt the need to anyway, either because they were never offended by their comments, or indeed, because they never really paid any attention to what they had to say in the first place, so there is no way of knowing if the critic has been "taught" a lesson or not.

We're all grown-ups here Azz.
Surely adding another layer of bureaucracy is not the way forward.

If you don't want someone to post any sort of comment on your images, then just pm them, ask them nicely to refrain from commenting on your posts, and give them a reason why. The other person might not even be aware that they have caused you offence in some way, and it would be pretty bad if the first they knew about it was because of a blocking device. Imagine yourself in that position...you're just about to give a nice comment on a particular image, only to find that you've been blocked from commenting on that person's work because they don't " respect your opinion."
How un-forum like is that?
Surely dialogue, no matter how small, is the way to resolve such issues. You never know, that small bit of dialogue between both parties might actually be enough to settle the dispute and clear the air. A blocked thread settles nothing. It will only antagonize and create divisions throughout the entire forum. Cleeks will form because X,Y & Z have blocked A,B & C, and that has annoyed 1,2 & 3 who think A,B & C have a right to voice their opinion...it will be a mess.

The person doing the critique has to face up to themselves too, and ask " Why do I keep posting negative comments on this person's thread? What is my agenda here? Do I have anything positive to say? Maybe I should just keep quiet then."

Just TALK to each other!
We're all here for the same reasons. To show off what we have learned, and to pass that on to others who wish to learn it.

Can't we all......just get along?


This has been another extract from " My Tuppence Worth " by Mandé Daguerre
Available in hardback, paperback and audio book form.

Well said again MD. I couldn't agree more.

*Absolutely* agree!

xx

I'm not talking just about YoP now, but when we (hopefully) get thousands of members. As Admin I have to make the site as easy and enjoyable as I can for our members... and people don't like wasting hours sending PMs to people asking them politely not to critique their work only to be drawn into having to explain why, which 9 times out of 10 they'll get asked.

It's about giving members control, and making it easier for them to enjoy themselves whilst on this site - I've seen plenty of people come and go, and duly note the things I think have contributed to that or what could have been done to make their time here more enjoyable.

In the order of things, I think it's more important to allow a user to disable certain people commenting on their photos than to give people some god given right to rip apart, make fun, snigger, sneer or just be downright rude at other people's work, whenever or wherever they like. It's about given you control to say, thanks but no thanks when that happens.

For most people here, it won't be an issue in the slightest It really will only effect those who's comments are not amicable and verge on or are considered rude, unthoughtful and inconsiderate.

But will it though? Or will it just be abused? Will there be any sort of moderatation with it? Will such things be approved by admin? Or can people just block willy-nilly? I'd *like* to think that where possible I always try to mention good points as well as bad, and that I always try for my critique to be as amicable, and constructive, as possible... I'd hate to think that someone could block me (or anyone else for that matter) just because they didn't *really* want any critique, constructive or otherwise, even though they'd asked for it... :/ It does seem very... mean spirited I suppose.

xx